“As long as there is oppression of any kind, there is a need for feminist movements.” - Awa Fall-Diop (Senegal) 2/4
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We continue our interview with Awa Fall-Diop, Senegalese feminist activist, educator and specialist in issues of gender justice and social movement building. In the first part of this conversation, she shared with Chanceline Mevowanou the defining moments of her childhood.
In this second part, we explore the beginnings of her commitment, the construction of her feminist convictions and her fight for equality in education.
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To introduce yourself, you said, “I am a pan-African feminist, a revolutionary activist for the liberation of Africa, the liberation of the human race, and the liberation of all women. ” How did your political convictions come about?
I think I was brought up to be a feminist from birth. In my family, when we praise women, we only praise what they've accomplished. I know the women in my lineage back through 20 generations. These are women who didn't let themselves be pushed around, even though they were not at the same level of political awareness as I am. I was born into a lineage of women who don't let themselves be pushed around. I'm not saying that “being born into that” is enough to absorb that education because there are other people in the same family who don't share my opinions. Perhaps what converted the feminist attitude into a feminist consciousness in me was my enlistment in Marxist, Leninist, Maoist organizations. I think that allowed me to structure my temperament and my upbringing into a political vision.
How did you join these organizations?
It was at the time of the single-party system in Senegal. The creation of other political parties was forbidden. These organizations came to raise awareness and used theatre as a tool. We used to perform theatre in my neighbourhood. What was being said resonated with me. What they were calling for corresponded to what was inside me. It resonated with me. That's how I got involved.
Do you remember the first organization you joined?
Yes. And its name meant “Act together”.
How has your involvement in these organizations helped to shape your feminist and political vision?
These organizations had training sessions on Marxism, class struggle, Pan-Africanism, Kwame Nkrumah, Amilcar Cabral, and Julius Nyerere. So, in this training course, we inevitably talked about oppression. It was easy to see the oppression of women by men, even within the organization. We began challenging them on certain practices that were far from being Marxist and, therefore, far from liberating. We were told that we had to work for the revolution first and that it was the revolution that would solve the problems of the people and the problems of women. We refused. We said there were issues that we had to solve here and now. We were not going to suffer while we waited for the revolution. We wanted to sort out the relationship between male and female activists within the organization.
What you say is still relevant today. Many young feminists find it difficult to engage and collaborate with certain organizations that claim to be pan-Africanist because their vision of the continent's liberation does not include the concerns of women and other marginalized groups.
These organizations, which call themselves pan-Africanists with such a vision of African liberation, have certainly not read Samora Machel, Amilcar Cabral, or Thomas Sankara, who spoke specifically of women's liberation. We actually need to address some issues, such as the ones women and other marginalized groups face, to speed up the revolution.
What does feminism mean to you?
For me, feminism is a political vision, a political commitment to fight against all forms of oppression between men and women, between women, and between countries and continents. As long as there is oppression of any kind, there is a need for feminist movements.
You say, "It's a political vision, a political commitment." Could you explain what you mean?
Yes. Political is different from partisan. People often confuse the two. Partisan indicates which side you're on. For example, Chanceline, are you in the Republican Party to save Benin? Are you in the Democratic Party? That's being partisan. To be political is to have a global conception of the world, of how the world should be organized, how it should function. What is the place of each element, of each entity, not only human beings, but also animals, trees, flowers, seas, rivers, soil, sky, earth, air. That's what it means to have a political vision.
You've also defined yourself as a "revolutionary activist". What does this mean to you?
I'm a revolutionary activist because I'm convinced that change is the most enduring thing in the world. For example, since this morning, we've been calling you Chanceline. But the Chanceline who entered this room at 8 a.m. is not the same as the Chanceline who is sitting here right now. Are you aware of that?
I know what you mean.
Whether it's human beings or things, everything changes. Being revolutionary means accepting this principle. Not only accepting it, but also trying to provoke it, where there is resistance, where there are attempts at conservation. You know, even in the ecological movement, I'm against nature conservation movements. You can't conserve nature; you preserve it. Because nature carries change within itself. So, to be revolutionary is to be against any form of conservation, any conservative ideology, any conservative movement. It means being aware that change is inevitable.
What actions did you get involved in, at the start of your feminist commitment?
We've done a lot of awareness-raising to change perceptions on various subjects: rights, equality, dowry, excision, and girls' schooling. I even remember that we were doing one of these awareness-raising sessions once, and the police came and picked us up, telling us it was forbidden. I've done a lot of work on these subjects through shows, public appearances, and speaking engagements. And petitions, too. I remember there was a time when a working woman couldn't pay for her child's medical expenses. Her male colleague with the same job and the same pay grade could pay for his child through the social security system, though. Other friends and I started a petition called "We are mothers, we are workers". It was based on this petition that the trade unions took up this demand.
Trade unions in which fields?
Teachers' unions. I was a teacher. I taught French in elementary school. As we had friends in the regions, we circulated the petition throughout the country and got a huge number of signatures. Each of us pushed at their own union level to get the unions to take collective responsibility for this demand.
Have your feminist convictions influenced the way you taught at school?
Absolutely. To the point of creating an organization called ORGENS, Observatoire des Relations de Genre dans l'Éducation Nationale au Sénégal (English: Observatory of Gender Relations in the Ministry of Education in Senegal). As a teacher, I looked at the textbooks and saw that all the women in them were either sweeping, cooking, carrying a child, dancing, braiding, or styling their hair. The men in the books, on the other hand, were principals or had other jobs. One day, I took the manual and went to the Ministry. At the time, André Sonko was Minister of Education. I told his secretary: "I'd like to meet the Minister.” She said, "Do you have an appointment?" I replied, "No, I don't, but I must meet the Minister."
You were driven in your approach
The minister was coming out of his office. I said, "Minister, I need to see you." He replied, "About what?" I started talking, and he told his secretary, "Give her an appointment." On the day of the appointment, I came and explained my concern. I told him: "Mr. Minister, in the textbooks, there are 20% women, whereas they make up at least 50% of the population. In our country, there are female teachers in schools, but in the books, only men are represented in these positions. The books don't even feature a female teacher. In our country, there are midwives, female doctors, and female lawyers. But that's not shown in the books...".
I continued: "How do you expect the girls of our country to be able to project themselves into a future where they are something other than nannies, sweepers, housewives? How do you expect the school enrolment rate to increase if girls don't see themselves in a future where they occupy other positions of paid responsibility? How do you expect parents who look at these textbooks to change their view of girls?" He set up another meeting with the Department heads. And I came back.
That’s impressive.
I came back. When I came in, a manager said to me: "Miss, you've made a mistake. What meeting are you going to?" (Laughter) I replied, "I'm going to the meeting with the Minister of Education." He said, "Really? With the Minister of Education?" I said, "Yes."
Sexism...
Yes. Then the minister arrived, and I explained. I was told, "Yes, we've taken note... But the books, the cost has to be paid off first, before we can change them." Later, the textbooks were changed. Some girls were looking through a magnifying glass, scanning the sky. Others had a globe.
Bravo for this initiative. What other actions has Observatoire des Relations de Genre dans l'Éducation Nationale taken in Senegal?
We have developed training modules for teaching staff on introducing gender equality into teaching-learning situations. And we have trained quite a few of them. Today, if gender is introduced into textbooks and learning environments, it's thanks to this association. Once that was done, we said to ourselves that our mission was accomplished, because we aimed to institutionalise gender in the education system.
I saw that your experience with the Observatoire des Relations de Genre dans l'Éducation Nationale in Senegal was highlighted on your profile as an Ashoka Changemaker Innovator.
Yes, our concept was simple: If you want to change a society, this change must happen where the society is created. And you create society in the family, at school. Many teachers said after the training that they didn't realise what was happening because nobody had opened their eyes to it. You see, that's why you should never have the prejudice that it's not going to work. Some people behave in certain ways because they don't know any better. But once they do, they're able to change their behaviour.
What is your fondest memory as a teacher?
As a teacher, my fondest memory is finding one of my pupils in one of the biggest banks in Senegal. Now, this is the capitalist system, of course, and I'm fiercely opposed to the capitalist system because it is oppressive. But as a teacher, I was very pleased to see that she managed to rise to the top. Another time, we were at a political protest, and I saw two of my students who were reporters. Things like that give me great pleasure.
How did your feminist commitment evolve?
I'll have to think about it. The truth is, I've often let myself go with the flow. In other words, I go somewhere and see that people are making demands, and I come along and join the fight. And as time goes by, I find myself at the forefront of the fight. That's how my activism developed. I never thought specifically about how to develop my activism.
In the third part of the interview, Awa Fall-Diop shares her analysis of the impact of the Beijing Conference (1995) on African women's rights and the persistent challenges facing feminist movements today. Click here to read part three.
